Announcement National Dex UU Suspect 3: HEAT (Victini Suspect)

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Hey everyone, the NatDex UU tiering council has decided to suspect test Victini!

Suspect Test Reasoning

Ever since its unban, Victini has been a controversial topic within the community. All of its sets were extremely potent, Choice Band and Choice Specs being the most popular choices the first couple of days. However, these sets were eventually deemed manageable enough due to the Choice-lock, meaning you can actually pivot around Victini's coverage very solidly. V-create also has a huge drawback, lowering Victini's Speed and both Defenses with one stage, meaning it's easy to revenge kill or Pursuit trap.

This all changed when the Z-Celebrate was quickly used, and to much success. Its near perfect coverage of Fire / Psychic / Grass hits pretty much everything in the tier and breaks through most of the tiers walls. Rotom-Wash, Gastrodon, and Slowking are all OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by Energy Ball. Fringe options such as Specially Defensive Whirlwind Mandibuzz, Specially Defense Toxic / Thunder Wave Porygon2 and random Grass-resist berries on Water types can check this set, but are hard to fit on most teams. Pokémon such as Incineroar have to hope Victini doesn't opt to run Focus Blast. The best current check is Galarian Slowking which, while eating every attack, has to fish for Sludge Bomb poisons to make fast progress vs Victini. Not to mention a random Choice Band V-create if you were expecting Z-Celebrate to come out will completely surprise the supposed 'check' and either takes significant damage or gets outright KO'd.

However, even Z-Celebrate Victini has its checks. Scarf Darkest Lariat Zarude is able to revenge +1 Victini after rocks damage, due to Darkest Lariat ignoring the Defense boost of Z-Celebrate. More Specially Defensive Slowking carrying Toxic or Thunder Wave can severely cripple Victini. Aforementioned Pokémon, such as Incineroar, Galarian Slowking and more niche Specially Defensive Pokémon such as Mandibuzz & Porygon2 can oftentimes fulfill the job. However, Victini still has the potential to break through all these checks with any other set that's not Z-Celebrate.

Suspect Test Information

  • **This is new to National Dex UU suspect tests** Reading this is mandatory to participate in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 79 with at least 40 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 79 GXE, down to a minimum of 20 games at a GXE of 83. Also, needing more than 40 games to reach 79 GXE will suffice.
  • GXEminimum games
  • You must use a fresh account that begins with the given prefix for this suspect test. That prefix is NDUUVC. For example, I could signup and qualify with the name NDUUVC N_Mareanie.
  • You may not impersonate or mock another user with your account name. If there is any slight hesitation, you're probably better off picking a different name. We reserve the right to null your voting requisites if you are found impersonating or mocking another user with your account name. Moderator discretion will be applied.
  • If you are found trying to manipulate voting requisites in any way, you will be met with a harsh infraction. Manipulating voting requisites ranges from faking your screenshot to asking another user to forfeit.
  • The Pokemon that's being suspect tested, Victini, will be allowed on the National Dex UU ladder for the next two weeks so that we can properly assess its position in the metagame.
  • This suspect test will go on for two weeks. It will last until January the 18th at 11:59 PM GMT+1.
Suspect Test Rules
  • You are required to make sure that whatever you are arguing for is in-line with the Tiering Policy Framework. If what you're arguing for isn't, there's a very high chance that your post will be deleted.
  • No uninformed one liners or posts;
  • No discussion on other potential suspect tests;
  • No discussion on the suspect test process.
  • Your posts are expected to be respectful, please do not insult anyone.
  • If you fail to follow these rules, you may be infracted without any prior warning.
If there are any questions, feel free to PM myself or Cold Apple Soda . If there are any questions about the moderation of this thread, you should feel free to PM the moderation team.

Victini Suspect

As some of you may probably know, I am a stall player. That's why my pont of view about Victini is general but a bit stall-biased. I am going to divide the post in distinct parts: 1) Sets 2) Counter/Checks 3) Conclusions

1) Sets

Victini is known for its physical sets but this can lead us to some miscalculations as some special sets can be also run. Scarf-Victini is useful too, but its sheer power is lower than CB set and, although is a bit problematic, is not broken at all.

Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt

Not many things can wall CB set. First of all, CB-Victini can give momentum with Bolt Strike and good speed. Zen Headbutt for STAB and V-Create can create holes in the opponent's team. Bolt Strike is totally necessary for water walls which normally switch in.

Victini @ Normalium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Searing Shot
- Energy Ball
- Celebrate

And the other set that is problematic would be Z-Celebrate one. In this case you have a STAB-Store Power at +6, Energy Ball for water walls and Searing Shot also for STAB.

The main problem with Victini is that it has several good and working sets: special attacker, choice scarf, choice band and Z-Celebrate. Many times you will need to sack or risk some Pokémon to know which set is running and if you do this when it Z-Celebrates then maybe a gg.

2) Counter/Checks

Practically there is no counter at all taking into account all sets. If we only check for physical CB and Z-Celebrate sets, then Quagsire and Seismitoad would be the best one. However, CB U-Turn does some damage and gives momentum to breakthrough Quagsire and Seismitoad. Gligar and Hippowdon can take V-Create once and then OHKO with EQ but they cannot switch in. With Alomomola happens the same and the only way to deal with is to risk Bolt Strike/V-Creates with Rocky Helmet Alo to accumulate some recoil damage (Stealth Rock are really important here). Rotom-Heat can also tank 1 V-Create but unlikely will get a OHKO with Volt-Switch or Discharge. Z-Celebrate sets can be, more or less, stopped by Umbreon and Alola-Muk with sp.def investment.

3) Conclusions

Special attacker set is not bad but has no great utility currently. CB and Z-Celebrate sets are mid-late game sweepers/cleaners that have great splashability in Nat Dex UU teams. Z-Celebrate set is good at the moment but can be stopped, meanwhile CB sets are amazingly good and they have no good counters and some checks that cannot switch in safely. Moreover, CB can give you momentum and does not spend the Z-move in your team. I would say that Victini is too good for this tier and deserves a ban due to CB set mainly. If you want to get reqs with Victini, use CB no matter what.

Victini Suspect
Im a victini user My self, i use mostlythe Celebrate set which as i saw is one of the best set, while i was battling i saw how broken victini is, i have a strategy with brellom for making it easy for victini to set up the Z-Celebrate, i sweeped a lot of team with this version, there are just a few thing that outspeed this like Regieleki but they aren't so popular in the tier.

Counter/check For the Popular celebrate set that i mainly use, as i sayed before i sweeped a lot of team and so i saw that there are just a few pokemon that can check him but if it gets the celebrate boost they can't anymore, those are mainly: Mega beedril Drill Run, possible stall celeesteela and another victini, but victini also can be stopped from other thing, a +1 victini can outspeed and OhKo with Stored Power/Searing Shot a full hp Beedril, but with a sticky web it can't outspeed anymore and another important thing for victini it's his boost: without for victini, even a +1 Attack it's needed for OhKoing everything with stored power, an example it's with salamence +1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 246-291 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Instead +1 252 SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 295-348 (89.1 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO with +1 attack boost or if someone is running modest, +1 252+ SpA Victini Stored Power (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 324-382 (97.8 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO now 31% of OhKoing isn't much but scald burn 30% of the time and it happens every time, then another counter can be every intimidate mon or if they can do stats change they are a problem for it.

Conclusion, Victini is a difficult pokemon to counter, if no pokemon go in UU that can counter it then yes it should be banned
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